November 8, 2006
Interviewed by Mary Bentley
Saxophonist Steve Cole has been a force to be reckoned with ever since he made his solo introduction with Stay Awhile in 1998. Eight years and five CDs later, he’s a crowd favorite, and still at the top of his game. With the release of his 5th CD, True, Steve revisits SmoothViews to discuss his new release.
SmoothViews (SV): The music on your latest CD, Truth, is described as organic. Can you tell us what you mean by that?
Steve Cole (SC): Organic, the way I like to put it, is kind of natural. It’s not trying to be anything other than it is. It’s honest and lacking in pretension. It’s not trying to conform to any particular expectations, so to speak. When I say organic, it’s just my best work. It’s just what comes out naturally, and that’s my very best.
SV: It has kind of a similar feel/vibe as Spin.
SC: It’s a very different record from Spin, but the spirit is the same. Every record I make, I want people to feel something. And I want it to be honest. I stand on my soapbox, and I say that, and I really mean that. The people that listen to my records appreciate them. Those are the people that I make the records for, and I owe them my very best. I can’t do anything less. So there you go.
SV: It’s also been said that it’s almost live because it was done in a studio with real people, as opposed to using a lot of technology.
SC: There’s so much technology replacing human beings. For this record, I woke up one day and said, "I’m going to go back to those records that made me want to do this in the first place, like Grover Washington’s Mister Magic, and Spyro Gyra’s Morning Dance, George Benson’s Breezin’, and David Sanborn’s Hideaway, Dave Grusin and Lee Ritenour, and Bob James and Earl Klugh’s One on One." When I listen to all of these records, I remember what it was that inspired me to attempt to become a recording artist. A lot of what was so special about those records was, of course, the artistry of those recording artists who made them, but it was [also] the interaction between a bunch of fine musicians in the same room together reacting to one another and making great music. That’s how it’s supposed to be done…together! (Laugh) The entire record wasn’t made all in the same room, but as much as humanly possible. The music was first. It wasn’t the budget. It wasn’t trying to be efficient with dollars. It was, whatever the music needs is what the music got. It needed the interaction. It needed that spark that comes from people. And there are great people on this record.
SV: This is your second release with Narada. How are things working out with them?
SC: Phenomenal. It’s great. They’re so supportive. They let me make the records that are inside of me. I feel like what they said is, “We’ve signed Steve Cole, the artist, and we trust you to make records that are going to be the highest quality.” I think that Narada has made a reputation as being high quality. They let us be artists.
SV: That’s very smart. When the major labels started cutting out their jazz departments, a lot of people didn’t really think that it was a good thing, but they say that when one door closes, somewhere a window opens.
SC: Absolutely. Narada has folded into Blue Note. Blue Note is with EMI. It has the power, influence, and resources of a major label, but it has the sensibility of almost an independent label, in terms of how they stress quality over everything. This genre is very interesting, and as artists, it’s incumbent upon us to understand our audience. I believe that our audience has highly evolved musical sensibilities, and I also believe that they understand what quality is. They also understand what it isn’t. And in this music we always need to bring our A game, because when we don’t this audience knows it. If we’re not doing the absolute best we can, if we’re not growing and pushing the edge of the envelope and challenging our audience and letting them know that we’re not ever going to sit back and rest on our laurels, and make a record that sounds just like the last one... if they know that, then they’re going to be with us. When they sense that we’re not doing that, they may react accordingly. And we have to respect that. This music is not a mass appeal type of music that can be put in a box and rubber-stamped. It’s just not. We can’t expect our audience to expect anything but our absolute best efforts. So it doesn’t surprise me that some other labels have decided to divest of this format. It’s a niche. The format is a niche. It’s a large one, but it’s not the same audience that Fergie is going after. We have to understand that. When we try to cookie-cutter this music, when we try to put it in a box and cut the edges off of it, we’re going to lose people. If we challenge them and do great music, and understand they expect nothing less from us, then we’re going to grow this audience, as well as grow the robustness of this format. That’s what I’m about. That’s what I want to do on every release. And that, I believe, is consistent with what Narada and Blue Note are about.
SV: I heard you play “Bounce” at the Birchmere last summer. It didn’t have a title back then. You also played it in Wisconsin at Kettle Moraine, and it just totally blew me away both times I heard it. How’s the audience reaction been to that song?
SC: Well, I love playing it. Audience reaction has been great. I was blown away at the Birchmere. That was the first time we’d ever played it – the very first time. For me, when I premiere a new piece, it’s scary because I may feel one way about something, but until it gets out there and floats around the audience, and I get to see how people react to it, I’m scared. So, needless to say, when we got the reaction that we did at the Birchmere, it was like a big, heavy sigh. Oh thank God! I hoped that that would be the reaction because I was so excited about the song when it was written. It’s a blast to play, and I think you can expect that the audience is going to have fun listening to it.
SV: You convey that when you play it.
SC: Literally, I love playing that song.
SV: And “Metro” is the first radio single, only just released. Have you had any early radio feedback yet?
SC: All indications are that it’s really going to be well-received, and I’m happy about that. I really like the song “Metro” because, after the fact, as I’m listening to the finished product, I realize just how much of Chicago is in this record. Chicago is a really unique place. When I was coming up, the music scene here was such that, you’d be playing in a club and the keyboard player would be twice your age, and the guitar player would be half your age. Chicago has this amazing multigenerational community of musicians that play together. When you think about who came from Chicago – Quincy Jones, Chaka Khan, Curtis Mayfield, Eddie Harris, Ramsey Lewis; all of that groundbreaking music is still bouncing around all over the place from Chicago. It’s bouncing around the streets, if you want to be metaphysical about it, but it’s also bouncing around in the brains of all these people of all different ages. So “Metro” is kind of a nod to the fact that house music was kind of born in Chicago.
SV: Oh! Was it? I did not know that.
SC: Yes, it was. House music was born in Chicago. The thing I really like about “Metro” is that it’s kind of simple but complex at the same time. One of the things I really wanted to do with this record was to play on this record. A lot of people were asking me that [because] when they see my live show, I end up going off on some improvised journeys in my live shows. (Laugh)
SV: (Laughs) Which is good. That’s one of the reasons why we enjoy your live shows so much.
SC: People were saying, “Why don’t I hear enough of this on your records?” And my own answer is, I have no idea, but I’m going to fix that. And “Metro” is great because it grooves, and it’s very easy to just get wrapped up in. Also, it has a complexity that allows me to really stretch out when I play a solo on it. I really like that about it. I really like that it has those two sides to it.
SV: There’s a lot of talent coming out of Chicago. We’re finding that out more and more as we progress with this website.
SC: I really do think that there is a true Chicago sound emerging in “smooth jazz.” It started back with Eddie Harris and Ramsey Lewis. Art Porter, although he was from Little Rock, he cut his teeth in Chicago. And my buddy Nick Colionne, he’s another guy who’s representing. Think about all the players that back up some of the people you know – Larry Kimpel, from Chicago, Oscar Seaton, from Chicago, Richard Patterson, who was with Miles Davis and now is with David Sanborn and Boz Scaggs, from Chicago, Ray Fuller, from Chicago. When you put that all together with the tradition of Chaka and Curtis and Quincy and others, Chicago is a powerhouse. I’m trying to bring that Chicago sound to the masses. It’s very unique. There is a very, distinct, powerful, soulful, and emotional sound that comes out of this city. I want to be a poster child for the Chicago sound or carrying on the Chicago sound, because it certainly didn’t start with me.
SV: Tell us about the title of the CD, True.
SC: The whole objective was to make the record that I’ve always wanted to make, with the whole Chicago element, the tradition, using real live musicians and making music as an honest portrayal of my influences, and what I represent and needed to communicate. To me, True was the most obvious title because I think it really represents what the record is.
SV: In the articles I’ve read regarding your CDs, they talk about how NY/LA was so different from your first two releases, and how Spin was so different from NY/LA. What I read made it sound like those two CDs were a departure from what you were previously doing; however, I didn’t interpret it that way. What I got was that it wasn’t a departure, but it was more like an introduction to who you really are musically.
SC: Every record I make is going to be honest. The thing is, when I made Spin, I was really inspired at that point in time by a new crop of singer/songwriters coming up that kind of made me believe in pop music again. When you think about it, with Spin, the early singer/songwriters like James Taylor, Carole King, Van Morrison, Ray Charles, Stevie Wonder, and others, that was a profound group of people who really raised the bar on songwriting and lyric writing, and communicating a feeling or an emotion. Then we kind of got “corporate popped” a little bit. Then this younger generation of singer/songwriters like John Mayer came along. There were others also in the middle of that, like Sheryl Crow, but here we have this kid, John Mayer, who’s playing like crazy, writing great, really poignant music.
SV: Yes, and people like India Aire.
SC: Yes, and they’re playing acoustic guitar, and they’re singing great songs – songs that stand on their own and don’t need a whole lot of production or even a whole lot of people. You have a great artist and a guitar, and I was really inspired by that. I saw that in our format, that particular platform wasn’t really being represented very much by some of the “core” artists. I thought it was an opportunity to do something new and different, and it challenged me to a great degree. I mean, I learned an entirely new instrument. I learned to write music a completely different way. I feel I’d written some of the best music I’d ever written up until this record, of course, this new one. Spin is a completely honest portrayal of what I was doing, what was inspiring me at that point when I made that record, and True is kind of the same thing. I think it’s interesting for fans to take a creative journey with different artists, and come along for the ride, so to speak. That’s what I try to do.
It’s a totally different approach, but I enjoyed it because it was new, and it was different, and it was creative. And every time I do something different, every time I try to venture outside of the square, so to speak, I feel like I get better at everything. When I learned a new instrument, I got better at hearing harmony differently. I wrote on a different platform. I wrote just with a tape recorder and a guitar, and I felt like my songwriting went leaps and bounds. I wasn’t constrained by go-to techniques that you develop sometimes when you write a song the same way. It was important for me to shatter the glass and step outside of that and re-learn, basically how to write songs. That’s how you get better, you break down all of the things that you know and strive to discover the things that you don’t know.
SV: Was it hard?
SC: Yes, completely perilous and frustrating.
SV: Was the end result worth it being as hard as it was?
SC: Absolutely. When I sit back and listen to that record, and I think of the time spent developing calluses on my left hand, trying to build up those calluses so it didn’t hurt to play the guitar, not to mention the fact that I had to learn to actually learn the instrument, and the frustration. I mean, think about it. I get up in front of people, and I play the saxophone. I feel like I’ve kind of got the saxophone thing together to some extent, but then I pick up another instrument. I have an innate musicianship, but now I’m a novice. I pick up a new instrument, and I’m remedial. But there’s this amazing sense of discovery that comes from learning something new and being uncomfortable and being frustrated that you don’t sound as good as you want to. And also, not being as good as other players. You’re striving to get better, but you’re frustrated that you’re not at the level that you want to be at yet. On the saxophone, I listen to myself five years ago, and I hear a difference. I hear myself last week, and I don’t hear much of a difference in my saxophone playing because the development comes in smaller increments at a certain level. With guitar and writing songs on the guitar, the increments of progress came in larger chunks and shorter periods of time, so it was really exciting, but also frustrating. So, it was great to break it all down; just burn the house down and start building it up again (laugh.)
SV: Did Dave Hiltebrand write with you on this album?
SC: Dave Hiltebrand and I wrote two songs together. We wrote “Bounce,” and we wrote a song called “Cote Seine,” which is one of the songs on this album I’m completely proud of. Dave’s playing guitar on that. There’s this tremendous acoustic guitar in the style of Django Reinhart, and it’s Dave Hiltebrand, the bass player.
SV: I’d like to talk about the Sax Pack a little bit. How did you get involved in that?
SC: Sometimes you’re at a show, and you hear a bunch of guys’ backstage saying, "We should really do something together. I would really love to work with you on something." It never happens because everyone goes their separate ways. They go to the airport and everyone flies to different cities. Well, we decided that we weren’t going to let that happen. Jeff Kashiwa called me up one day and said, “Hey man. Remember that time when we were talking about how it would be so cool to work together? Remember how cool we thought it would be to work with Kim Waters, because we all love Kim so much?” Yeah, yeah, I remember that. “Yeah, well, we need to do that.” It was one of those moments when I thought about the fun, and I thought about the music, and I thought about how much I loved these guys as saxophone players and how much fun they are to hang out with. It was a no brainer. I didn’t even have to think about it.
SV: That answers my next question. Are you guys really having as much fun as you appear to be?
SC: Actually, more (laugh) because you don’t see what goes on backstage (laughs) It’s probably some of the most fun I’ve ever had playing. It’s great. The thing I love about it is that our styles are so different. The thing we strive to do also is play together more than people are used to with some of the other group shows. We play together because it’s a whole lot more fun, but when we play our little features when we’re alone, our styles are so different that it’s almost like a whole other experience every time somebody comes out. Marion Meadows is a charter member of the Sax Pack, but the Sax Pack is Kim Waters, myself, and Jeff Kashiwa. And that is what it will always be. It’s not a revolving door. The Sax Pack will never be saxophonist A, saxophonist B, saxophonist C, and a saxophonist to be named later. The Sax Pack is Steve Cole, Jeff Kashiwa, and Kim Waters. What that means to us is that we develop the show. The show evolves from year to year. It just gets better and better. You always know that when you come to see it, it’s going to be us, and every time you see it, it’s going to get better. The more we play together, the tighter it gets, the better it gets, the more fun it becomes. The Rat Pack was always Frank, Sammy, Lawford, and Dino. It wasn’t Tony Bennett, and next year, someone else. So, they come to see the Sax Pack, and the Sax Pack is what they’re going to get.
SV: You guys are really funny too.
SC: It’s a good time. We have a lot of fun, but when we get down to the music, we get down to business, which is great. I think the audience likes that. They like to have fun. We joke around and we have a lot of fun, but when the music happens – boom! It’s no joke.
SV: Will you be doing any solo touring to support True?
SC: Yes, as much as humanly possible. I’ll be doing dates alone and also working with the Sax Pack in 2007.
SV: The first time I saw you, you were playing with Brian Culbertson, several years ago. You started as a sideman, as most musicians do. When did you know it was time to make the transition from being a side musician to a headliner?
SC: When I was 15.
SV: Okay! (Laughs) Well, I guess that answers my question.
SC: I really enjoyed supporting the artists that I worked with. It was great. It was a great deal from everyone, from Rick Braun to Brian Culbertson, Bob Mamet, Boz Scaggs, all of them. I learned a great deal. I always respected the music. When I was supporting those guys, it wasn’t about me; it was always about the ensemble. That said, I always knew exactly what my end game was. My goal and my direction have always been to develop to a point where I feel I had something to say as an artist in my own right. So when I was 15, that’s always what I wanted to do – record original music and perform it for people. That was always the goal. The sideman side of my career was completely necessary in helping me achieve that. I owe a great amount of gratitude to those artists who thought enough of me to bring me along with them.
SV: There are so many changes going on in the smooth and contemporary jazz world right now; the way the music is made, the way it’s marketed, the way it’s sold, just music in general. How are you, as a musician, weathering these changes?
SC: I embrace them. Here’s the thing. We hear a lot about what technology is doing to the music industry, and sometimes we hear people saying it’s doing bad things, and we hear people say it’s doing good things, but the end result of all of it is a shift in influence. Where the influence is shifting to is kind of to the hands it should be in – the audience’s hands and to the artist’s hands. Assuming that that artist has a high level of talent and accomplishment, they can, for a relatively low cost on his own, represent their music in a quality fashion. That’s what technology has enabled us to do with recording. And with an internet connection, a laptop, and some market savvy, you can get it out to a global audience. That’s an entirely empowering phenomenon. The good news is that everybody can do it. The bad news is that everybody can do it. There’s going to be a need for filters. And that’s where the audience comes in. The more that the influence shifts to the artist, the more it shifts to the audience to be the body that decides what quality is. Not so much large corporations. Of course, EMI excluded because they’re completely musical and have music at their center. As an aggregate, the audience is going to decide what quality is, and they’re going to communicate to artists what they demand of them. And I love that! If technology enables a more direct communication between the artist and the audience, then I’m all for it because I think in the end, that’s going to be a net benefit to everyone. I’m a pretty optimistic guy. I see changes in business, and where a lot of people see chaos, I see opportunity. There’s a lot of uncertainty in the music industry, and there’s a lot of uncertainty with regard to technology. New business models [are] emerging because of different changes in technology, changes in influence and changes where the power is, but I just see opportunities for more audience involvement and better music. I mean, I’m in this business, and I love it, and I love music. I can summarize why I got into this very simply. I became a musician so I can write music, record music, and play music in front of as many people as humanly possible.
SV: Wow, that’s fantastic! That’s just the perfect way to end this. Thank you for giving me a little of your time this evening. I look forward to seeing you on the road next year.
SC: Well thank you. |
