Interviewed by Mary Bentley
Jonathan Butler made a name for himself in the
U.S. with his self-titled album, Jonathan Butler,
back in 1987. Twenty years later, he is a Grammy nominated
guitarist and singer who sings and plays across many genres,
including gospel, jazz, R&B and pop. Through it all,
he has remained true to his musical and cultural heritage, weaving
the rhythms of his native South Africa into his music. Since
the apartheid system officially ended and was replaced by a democracy
in 1994, Jonathan Butler was free to return to his homeland,
after many, many years, and make music. One of these trips
spawned the idea to record this experience on CD and DVD. The
result is Live In South Africa. Smoothviews
discusses the new project, and the emotional journey behind it.
Smoothviews: (SV): I want to talk about the CD a
little bit. I’ve been listening to it for a couple
of weeks now.
Jonathan Butler (JB): You mean the Rendezvous
Live record?
SV: Yes, and I’m enjoying it. It’s
just like being at a concert.
JB: Thank you. You should see the DVD. That’ll
bless you. That was a real special occasion for all of
us. It was a real special trip.
SV: I haven’t seen the DVD yet. I’ve
ordered the real one since it’s released now, so I
can have the whole thing, the CD with liner notes, and the
DVD. I’m a fan of liner notes.
JB: Oh! You’re a fan of liner
notes. That’s good. That’s cool. These
days, you don’t hear people discussing liner notes. Back
then, that was the thing. You had to know who played
on it; who did what on it.
SV: I always read the liner notes. I want
to know who is playing.
JB: That’s right. That’s
how it should be. All those years I bought just about
every record in South Africa just to see who was playing. It
just gave you so much. At least for us, it gave us so
much vibe from the album. And, it’s important.
SV: I really like it a lot. It had to be a
pretty emotional experience for you to make this recording.
JB: Absolutely. When I go back to South
Africa, it’s just an incredible feeling. Just playing
in front of a home audience is an incredible feeling. There
are so many things that go on in my head, a lot of different
things going through my mind. [It’s] just the emotional
feeling of it; my family is around. It’s very emotional. You
hope that things come out the right way when you sing and when
you play. [You hope] that all your ducks are in a row. It’s
a very emotional time.
SV: I’ll bet. The DVD must do a good
job of conveying all of that emotion.
JB: Yes, absolutely. I wouldn’t
want people to miss that. I want people to know that;
and to see that. Obviously, that’s what makes the
story. For me, that’s letting the fans in on all
those years that you’ve been telling them about your
country. And that’s what you want them to hear. You
want them to know that part. The whole thing came together
really well with Rendezvous. Nowadays there is a great
influx of musicians and international artists going to South
Africa, but, [in South Africa] the general public cannot always
afford the ticket. And so, for them to have a DVD of
the artists they love is almost like being at a concert for
them. So, every time I’ve been on a plane going
somewhere, people at home say, “When are you going to
make a DVD? We need to have a DVD of yours out there.” I
know how much it means to the people at home. It’s
nice to have a DVD of yourself. And, of course, like
I said to you earlier, now the fans can understand the passion
from which all of this stuff comes from.
SV: I definitely think that’s important. That
leads to the next question. Why now? Why at
this time in your life and your career did you decide to
do this?
JB: I think things happen for the right reasons
at the right time. What I hear from all of my friends
is how crazy the music business is today, and this is different,
and that is different about the industry. Back in the
day, DVDs and videos were made of the artists, and, nowadays,
when it comes to smooth jazz and contemporary jazz, you don’t
see a lot of videos of the actual artists. All you hear
is the music, and there’s very low budget for things. So,
this all just came together because I was going to South Africa
to do concerts there. Actually, I was there touring with
Jaime Collins, and the two of us were touring and we kind of
merged that and the possibility of a DVD. Somehow, it
all just came together. It really did.
SV: How many shows did you do over there?
JB: Oh my goodness! I did about four
to six shows, and then it was time to do the DVD. But
it was good. It was really, like I said, it was very
emotional. We picked an incredible place to do an intimate
taping using a lot of story telling about where I grew up,
and took some of the footage of the early years, the concerts
we did in Cape Town, Johannesburg, Durbin, and so forth. I
think with the DVD, everything worked out. The timing
was perfect and everyone was supportive of the video, and the
idea of it. It just made sense.
SV: You have so much material. You’ve
got well over a dozen releases out now, roughly 15 or 16. How
did you decide what to include on this CD?
JB: What you do is you start from the beginning. I
went all the way to the beginning of my first American CD, Introducing
Jonathan Butler. I wanted to take people
on a journey all the way up to now, and that’s what I
did. I just said, okay, these are the songs that mattered
to my people back in South Africa. That’s how it
all just worked out.
SV: It (“Afrika”) was a good choice
for the first song. When I listen to it, it almost
feels like an invocation.
JB: Well, that’s what you want. I
think the fans deserve to get the full story. That song
kept coming back to me. It’s not just an anthem
back home, it’s a testimonial.
SV: It felt like it.
JB: It’s kind of a testimonial. You’re
reaching out. You’re really letting people in on “This
is Jonathan Butler.” That’s what I love about
it.
SV: There are a lot of good songs, but there are
probably so much more that you probably wanted to include.
JB: Absolutely. Can you imagine?
SV: They’re very good choices and it sounds
like the crowd was really into it.
JB: It’s unfortunate because when you’re
listening to it and hearing it, and, if you’re in the
audience in South Africa, you would understand it in a whole
other way. I was playing a CD of Jobim the other night,
a live record of Jobim from Brazil, and people sing every line,
every word. That’s how it is in South Africa.
SV: I’ve been to those concerts, where everybody
is singing along with the artist. Everybody knows the
words.
JB: They sing every word, every word. It
just blows me away.
SV: Yes, it’s amazing. Now, you signed
your first recording contract at the age of 12? And, you
were the first black artist to be played on white radio in
South Africa?
JB: Yes, right.
SV: That is amazing.
JB: It’s funny. When you are a
child, you don’t think about how deep that is. You
don’t really think about it, but it is pretty deep. It’s
pretty amazing when one thinks about what South Africa used
to be like, and how things are today. You just go, wow! How
did we get there? And how did we get through this? And
of course, I had no idea that that was the dynamic in South
Africa, that socially and politically, that’s what that
meant. I was only 12 years old. How does a 12 year
old kid think about how he’s affecting his country, both
socially and politically? It’s pretty amazing. But,
that was the day in South Africa. That’s how things
were back home. You lived with it. You tried to
do your best. As I was growing up, it became more and
more apparent to me that this is another country, another world
that I grew up in. As I matured and began to see the
dynamics of just the social and political way that things were
at home, I began to get really despondent with even just having
that success. To me, in some ways, it really didn’t
mean as much. After awhile, it didn’t really mean
a lot to me because I figured you’re still living in
the ghetto, you’ve still got to go back to your hut in
the wall. And, that’s how things used to be, basically. So,
it took me a little while. Now that I’m matured,
and I’m older, I understand a lot better. As a
matter of fact, I have these old records here with me and I
think about that a lot. When I look at them, I go, wow! That
was an incredible time.
SV: Did you think that you would see the change
in the political climate in your lifetime?
JB: Well, I think it was inevitable. The
country on the whole was on the verge. I always say that
when there is a collective consciousness, when people are collectively
and consciously moving towards change, nothing can stop it. It’s
almost like a wave. I think in the late ‘70’s
and early 80’s, it was just boiling. Things were
just boiling in South Africa. The whole world was at
a point. I believe, consciously and spiritually, that
the world was shifting. Just like I believe that the
world was shifting when 9/11 happened. I remember telling
my wife that there was a shift in the world after 9/11. It’s
going to change our lives forever; how we think about things,
how we view family, how we view other countries, the world
in which we live in, everything. Everything shifted from
that point.
How fortunate, and how awful it was for us to be able to walk
on both sides of the street and not have to worry about being
arrested or picked up by the police because you didn’t
have a passbook. That was just amazing. Those were
the years when these songs that made me famous back home came
out. You would perform for blacks one night, and perform
for whites another night. Today, it’s no longer. That
law does not exist. And that’s awesome. I think
South Africa in many ways is a beacon of light because it handles
its domestic issues in a way that’s pretty unique. The
Truth and Reconciliation Commission – that’s pretty
powerful. I ran into other guys from different parts of
Africa. They said, “What are you guys like in South
Africa? If it were us, we would have torn the place apart.” I
don’t think that’s how South Africa really is. South
Africa has a completely different way of looking at things. That’s
what we are grateful for. We’re thankful for that.
SV: When did you decide it was time to leave?
JB: It really was more of an opportunity that
came to me. It’s interesting because I ended up
getting resigned to a label that I left because they were moving
to Europe. Jive Records had a local, independent label
called Bullet. There were a whole bunch of local artists
signed to this label. It was the only one of its kind
that actually had a lot of township cats from Johannesburg,
and Cape Town, which is where I am from, a lot of tribal artists. Blacks
could only record at night, not during the day. They
couldn’t record in the 24 track studio either. That’s
how crazy things were back then. I was the youngest
on the label. When they moved to the UK, my parents
felt I was too young to leave and move to London, so, I stayed
at home. My life changed dramatically. I became
a born again Christian and stayed in the church. I got
married soon after I got saved. I was working in the
church but I also had my regular, local gigs that I did. I
also did little demos in my friend’s studio. I
sent those demos to England. From that, I had an opportunity
to get resigned with Jive Records in the UK. I was very
reluctant because I didn’t really know what to do. I
only knew it was an opportunity to go overseas. I was
happy serving God in the church, and being in the ministry. Those
were the tough choices, but, my late pastor, whom I sat under,
he counseled me and said, “This is an opportunity of
a lifetime for you and Barinese. See what happens.” So,
shortly after that, Bari and I got signed to Jive Records and
we moved to the UK. It was cool, but, it was a whole
different experience, moving to London, and just experiencing
how the world is so different. We had to figure things
out. It was amazing. I think that’s when
Bari and I grew up. That’s how we felt. We
were growing, and we became our own people. We raised
our babies. We were all we had. We didn’t
have any friends or family members that we could call on. The
Bible says ‘a man shall leave his father and his mother,
and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.’ And
we did become one.
SV: The last time you spoke with Smoothviews, you
talked about Acres of love. Are you still involved
with that charitable organization?
JB: Acres is such an incredible foundation
in that they deal with abandoned HIV babies. I was on
the board for a little while. Due to commitments and
traveling, it became difficult to keep everything going, so,
I thought it would be best to just kind of move on, but still
be there with whatever they needed from me. It was just
a labor of love. I felt a real calling from God to lend
a hand and support the organization. I think it’s
pretty powerful what they are doing. I’m also
involved with ANSA – Artists for a New South Africa. I
feel that if there’s anything to do with South Africa,
then I’m always excited to be a part of it. They
are very progressive, but basically on a much broader, international
level, whereas Acres is just concentrated on abandoned HIV
babies.
SV: In about a week and a half, you’re about
to play some dates at Blues Alley in Washington, DC. (By
the time this is online, those dates will have passed, 11/1 – 11/3.)
The very next day, you’re on a plane to Florida to
board a cruise ship and go sailing with Mr. Koz. (11/4 – 11/11)
Right after that, you’ll probably start rehearsals
for the Dave Koz 10th Anniversary Smooth Jazz Christmas Tour. Then,
the actual tour begins and runs for a month from 11/23 – 12/22. I
guess you get a little break for the holidays, then, shortly
after that, you’re on another ship with Mr. Tisdale
from 1/20 – 1/27. You’re a busy man!
JB: Yes, yes, yes. And then I go back
to South Africa and do that run for a little while. I
have to stay busy. I’ve got a granddaughter to
take care of. Somebody has to take care of our grandkids! (Laugh)
But hey, I’m excited about all of it. What does
the Bible say? As long as there’s day, seize the
moment. And, as long as there’s an audience that
loves what we do, of course that makes the biggest difference
of all.
The biggest difference for me is the people that come out, that
support smooth jazz despite what’s going on in the industry. Despite
all of that, people love the artists that perform, the artists
that go out. To me, that’s it. We as artists
and musicians need to come back to that truth, and not let these
formats and the industry change what made us and how being on
stage live affects what we do, and how we feel about ourselves. We
should just make good music. Just do what is right from
your heart. The fans will always keep coming.
Formats are changing the way musicians think. If they
don’t get played, then they have to play covers. And
I’m tired of that. Let’s remember why we make
music, what made us feel good about it. Those were the
days when Stevie Wonder’s Fullfillingness First
Finale, Innervisions. Those were the days
of music. Let’s do more of that. Let’s
bring more of that to the table. Fans will always keep
coming back. That’s why I love going on the cruise. You
get to be on a cruise and there are 2000 people who have your
CD. You can look them in the eye and they’ll tell
you all about you, and how much your music has meant to them. That’s
what I think is important. That’s what it’s
all about. It’s not about always thinking about what’s
going on in the format. We do have this incredible thing
that people love, and we should continue to do that.
SV: I’m glad you’re coming to Blues
Alley. I’ve seen you with Jazz Attack, and as
one of Dave Koz’s Friends. I do like the combination
shows, and, I understand the reasoning behind them, but you’re
got so much of your own material. I’m glad you’re
doing your own show. It gives you a chance to dig a
little deeper.
JB: Well, I’m glad you’re glad,
because I’m glad too. (Laugh) I personally
enjoy it myself, trust me. I look forward to go out,
and as I say to my manager, just do me. You don’t
always get a chance to just open up and explode and take people
on these journeys that so often I miss. It’s nice
to go out like that (group tours) but sometimes I think the
fans are not getting the full essence of who you are.
SV: What do you want people to get from your music?
JB: I want them to leave with a spiritual
sense of well being. For me, it’s not just entertainment. I
feel, to a great extent, that I’m an evangelist. I’m
preaching the gospel through music, bringing it in a way that
I’m not beating people over the head with a Bible. That
when they leave, that they’ll feel something that only
God can fill. I’m praying for God’s
tangible love to be experienced through music. Every
song that I pick is not by accident. I’ve been
through the years where I’ve written songs about love, “Love
Songs, Candlelight, and You,” “More Than Friends”and“Take
Good Care of Me.” Those are very good songs, but
I also have a part of me that’s ministry. So, when
people leave, that they feel a sense of peace, a sense of joy. I
want people to know that I’m a child of God, not just
an entertainer. I want people to know that they’re
not just coming to a concert.
SV: I think anyone who has seen you perform
can testify to that. Thank you Jonathan. It was such
a pleasure to chat with you.
JB: Thank you.
For more information about Jonathan Butler and the
causes he supports, please refer to the following websites:
www.jonathanbutler.com
www.rendezvousmusic.com
www.acresoflove.com
www.ansafrica.com
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